I want...

[KilgoreTrout]

I'm afraid of myself Cody. I can think in terms of how far I've come, but it's crap. I'm right where I started really aren't I? I've had periods of optimism, sobriety, I've supposedly gained experience. But where does it bring me back to? Here, again, barely sober and not wanting to be, depressed, afraid, childish idiotic phobaic and pathetic. I don't want to be here when I'm 35, or 40, or 50. I never wanted to be here in the first place, that's why I go back, the refusal of being here, 'giving up', but, of course, giving up means gaining control, facing the issues underneath the booze, finding a way to be a human being without it, my real problem...

Yes Chy the pity stick is out and shining, beating on my head and vehemently, consistently, pounding...

Why is it so difficult to move? I've always been so much more of a talker than a doer, I have lots of ideas, but no balls to implement them. Fear, again, fear fear fear. I listen to the lucious voices because they promise me normality, depth, humanity, if nothing else alleviation from the whirlwind of emotion and shame and self hatred and pity and sadness and uselessness that I feel every moment. Sounds like a good deal doesn't it? But like a bad lover the promise is always conditional. Always fleeting. Leaves me dirty and ashamed and forlorn and always so much further from the permanent alleviation I want. And I want that. I want some magical being to come down from the ether and bring me love and acceptance and family and 24 hour support with a friggin warranty and a money back garauntee!

I want it all. I want it to drop on my lap. I want it without further ado. What I really want is to start over, reset, go back to 13, never take that first drink, never lush myself out my teenage years, never care more about dope and drink and drug than health and balance. I want a chance to never have had to be here, never have rotten insides, a decaying soul, two decades of regret and embarrassment and SHAME that floods back into me, every ounce of it, everytime I do this to myself, full force, I'm drowning in my own shame over and over and over and over and over and over again everytime.

Nothing has changed with me. I'm a ridiculous fraud.

[Muse]

We can't go back, we can only stay stuck in our guilt and shame, or we can move forward. You'd be surprised what you can do if you really push yourself. I was much like you. I wasn't a doer. I remained stuck wishing to wake up to a life change, a miracle. That never happened by sitting back and waiting, in fact, my life became worse. The worse it got, the more I drank. Make it happen. You can do it, you can have the miracle, but the chances of it dropping in your lap, nil. The black cloud over your head, step away from it. I spent half of my life under that cloud. It never donned on me that I created the mess or contributed to it some how. During the entire time of my misery, I had the opportunity to step away from the cloud. I was too wrapped up in the negative to see the positive. You can do this. You can change your way of thinking. Now I have to ask, what are you going to do to make this happen?

[Rocketman]

YOU are telling my story dood,
My prayers are with you.
Please check out the thread (anyone struggling) at the doorstop.

[cody]

I agree a lot with what Muse said KT, and I hope you take her words to heart and take some action. Don't let the fear get the best of you....it's really up to you as to whether or not you want to continue to live your life in the shadows or out in the light. Sounds like you've got a healthy dose of low frustration tolerance going on to boot, LOL ;-) Have you done any work on dealing with fear/anxiety/USA? Lots of great resources out there if you choose to pursue them

[KilgoreTrout]

Thanks for all your replies. This is the first day I've been able to think straight, get past the emotions. I do not try to pity myself, perhaps I come off that way. I feel immense shame, immense sadness, immense self pressure, that's the way it is, if it isn't normal to then I'm not normal. The shame stick isn't an end for me, it's a means. It's GOOD that I'm feeling ashamed, embarrassed, even worthless. It's GOOD that I'm self loathing, fed up and angry. It's a means to the end of me never having to feel that way again and the pity stick stings me just enough to want to grab it mid motion, yank it away from my demons and beat the living p*ss out of them until they're dead seven times over. Failure is motivation, it's when I have sober time I get complacent, like this last time, thinking I could do it again, I failed to remind myself, perhaps the scent of summer wind distracted me from reality, reviving that dormant hope that I could be a functioning human being without risk again. Anyway, that's that I guess.

(Rocketman, do I owe you royalties bro?)

[indigo]

I wish I were able to give you the self esteem you so badly need, to let you know that you are a person of worth. We all get lost don't look at the past K go forward with hope and know you are loved no less than anyone else above all we are human and we make mistakes, forgive yourself it's hard I know I do know you can do it. Holding you close my friend.

[Chy]

In my active days KT I felt exactly the same. That shame, loathing, sadness, pressure you speak of. I remember it well. I don't ever want to feel that bad again. I know and recognize what causes it. It's drinking. This is why I know and have set it in stone in my heart I can never drink again. For some that "never" concept is hard as hell to accept. For some it's what keeps them from doing this recovery deal. To be in such fear of what happens in sobriety kept me drinking for 23 years KT. I also know now that fear that kept me stuck was part of the "disease". The more I drank, the longer I drank the disease was in full force keeping my thoughts and emotions in such a very dark place, that's what alcoholism does.

You are not alone in how you are feeling. I can bet nearly every one of us drunks here have felt exactly the way you have at some point if not in the entirety of our drinking careers. It's not a good place to be. But see look what you're doing, you are realizing many things about yourself, this is a good thing. You know a lot of it's fear based. So what next? First, accept your past and move forward, don't dwell on failures, do NOT. Secondly, take action in your recovery by first just not drinking. Let the mind and emotions subside, then get to work on you. Find an OP program you can manage, get in those groups and talk with others. Like Charlie said it's a very good way to begin peeling off the layers of KT and getting to the core of what ails you mentally and emotionally by being around people just like you.

The only thing you have to do is not drink right now. The rest will begin to fall into place for you. You know what sobriety feels like, you can have it back, you may have to do some tough soul searching and find that self love again, but be patient with yourself. If you're doing the right thing each day, then that's the best you can do. We're on a life journey KT, we may find some of those unanswered questions, we may not, but so long as we continue on the path of recovery and self discovery then that's the best we all can do.... you're not alone my friend, we understand completely.


P.S. Look for the books by Susan Jeffers, "Feel the Fear and Beyond" and "Feel the Fear and Do It Anyway", you want to do some work on self that is fear based? These will help!

[KilgoreTrout]

((((Chy)))) Thank you for the book recommendations, I'll check them out. Fear, yes, a big problem of mine. Fear of failure, self manifesting by the 'medications' I use to dampen the fear, how ridiculous this all is.

One thing I can't do this time is just forget and blow it off like I never slipped, I got real good at doing that for awhile but no, this time I NEED to remember and I NEED to dwell and I NEED to drink in every ounce of STINKING failure that has become me. I want all the toxins and all the shame and all the self loathing this time, I DESERVE IT and I'm sick of pretending I can just move on and it doesn't matter and life 'starts here'. Well, sure it does, but I can't let myself get away so easily, not this time, I really really really need to breath it all in, it's my fault, maybe this is what you guys call hitting bottom? Maybe I'm too good at climbing back up, maybe I NEED to hit the bottom as hard as I freaking can cause if I don't I have no faith that anything will ever eventually change with me for long. I don't know.

Originally Posted by indigo

I wish I were able to give you the self esteem you so badly need, to let you know that you are a person of worth.

((((Indigo)))) Actually, coming from you, one of the warmest and most beautiful people I've ever met, it means a lot for my self worth for you to say that, thank you.

[Chy]

One thing I can't do this time is just forget and blow it off like I never slipped, I got real good at doing that for awhile but no,

Okay so you slipped so what! You learn from it.

this time I NEED to remember and I NEED to dwell and I NEED to drink in every ounce of STINKING failure that has become me.

Why? Dwelling is a very bad thing, it prevents you from moving forward, learning from the experience and seeking growth.

I want all the toxins and all the shame and all the self loathing this time, I DESERVE IT and I'm sick of pretending I can just move on and it doesn't matter and life 'starts here'.

Why? No one deserves being dealt this hand KT. If unwilling to accept we have many opportunities at moving on, rediscovering or starting over then we continue our malicious cycle on our core being. Is that what you want? To continue this self loathing forever and ever? You've done a real good job at beating yourself up over this, I'm telling you you're done. It IS time to start over and move on and you have all of our permission to do so. Every morning I wake up I start over KT.

[Don S]

An old essay you might find useful.

Conversations about relapse:

From a forum discussion:

“Yesterday I made another mistake….

I’ve stopped drinking innumerable times over the course of the past four years...have not gotten beyond three to four months….

When I don’t drink things eventually do seem to improve to some degree… after several weeks I felt great, confident, even happy at times, certain that I had it licked....not so.

I have a problem with honesty, with developing the fortitude that it takes. I do try. I do want to be a sober person.

I figured that I have not only a cellular addiction to alcohol, but other things going on. Presumably we all have.

I am posting this for no other reason than I need to. For me it’s a matter of life and death. For others it may be a jump start, for me I have no where else to go.”

-----

Lapses usually relate to our commitment to abstinence, our success at making lifestyle changes, and/or how (or whether!) we plan for urges. Rebounding from them can be complicated by our secondary upset at having lapsed and by our feelings of helplessness.

A strong desire to stop drinking is not necessarily a commitment. Lifestyle changes can be as simple as shopping elsewhere or even changing the direction by which you travel. But usually we have to make specific changes, sometimes pretty drastic, to break the patterns we’ve established. Planning for urges may be something we do daily—by talking with others, by role playing, by reading how others have done it.

Some folks describe drinking behavior as if it is coming out of nowhere, almost beyond control. Identifying what sparks a binge—the starting point, the trigger, the urge which you acted on—is important. There’s usually a pattern or a specific event, and somewhere in that process we gave ourselves permission to start drinking. CBT Tool: the ABC!

Focus on that first drink, because it was the ‘rational’ decision. You may have lapsed before, so you know the pattern. The important thing to remember is that you’ve also QUIT successfully before.

Getting started.

The quitting part is pretty easy. It’s the staying quit that can be tricky. That’s where it will help if you can identify what benefit you feel drinking provides. CBT Tool: the CBA... Why do you drink? What are you trying to achieve? If you can answer that question, perhaps you can think of other ways to achieve the same results without the drug. If the answer is too simple (‘because I like the buzz’), get more specific: what do you like about the buzz?

Sometimes just getting started is the obstacle. When we get very down and discouraged we start adding up all the things that have gone wrong in our life. (In CBT that’s called “awfulizing”.) I’m not diminishing the facts: things may be very distressing; life sometimes sucks! But it isn’t useful to dwell on how bad things are: look for some balance. The fact that things are discouraging can lead us to filter out the positive things that are going on in our lives. Any sober time is an accomplishment, and it isn’t undone by a lapse. Nobody here judges you by the frequency or duration of your lapses. Lapses are normal, though undesirable, and they can be learning experiences.

Try to avoid over-analyzing your SELF when you’ve lapsed. If you’re going to be ruthlessly introspective, I’d suggest that every time you think or write something negative about your character, that you consciously balance it with something positive. Better yet, consider whether your self-analysis is really self-downing. It might be useful to find some ways to divert yourself when you start blaming, castigating, or otherwise flagellating your SELF. Best of all: don’t rate your self. Rate your behavior instead. CBT principle: USA!

‘Secondary upset’ is the term for being upset about being upset. It’s not secondary, though, in how we deal with it! It is the first thing to get out of the way in planning to dispute the next urge. Our self-esteem may be shot, and it’s not uncommon to hear people describe themselves negatively—when it is the behavior that is unhealthy.

An accurate description of what you did and what happened can be important. Don’t sugarcoat it, but describe it neutrally. ‘I chose to drink, and now I feel sick this morning. I am, and others are, disappointed by my behavior.’

Part of long-term sobriety may be daily reinforcement. Forums, meetings, and setting aside time for daily reflection are all techniques folks have mentioned. I find it useful to review the concepts underlying my sobriety, and I think that doing that casually and daily is better than doing it intermittently. Others find it helpful when you post here based on your own experiences. It can become a habit to replace your older, unhealthier one! And it’s good to know that there’s an online community here that cares about you.

Fill the time. Developing an active interest in something you are (or used to be) interested in can be incredibly useful. Drinking fills up a lot of time. An evening spent on the forum board, or reading a good book, or doing digital photography is an evening spent NOT drinking.

It’s surprising how often people mention drinking to avoid boredom! Or how much of a focus of our leisure time is spent actively pursuing intoxication. Part of planning for urges involves having something else in place, especially for those times of day that you know are usually drinking times. CBT Tool: your VCAI.

What it takes….Commitment is really the key, and there’s a difference between commitment to sobriety versus desire to stop drinking. It’s not strength. It might involve willpower. I know that desire can vary in intensity, but that success at sobriety is not related to that intensity.

Commitment is less emotional and more matter-of-fact. It’s really just a firm behavior based on some firm beliefs, repeated and reinforced daily:

· That drinking at all is simply NOT SOMETHING YOU DO.

· That I might hypothetically be able to drink moderately, but it wasn’t the case in the past, so abstinence is a better choice for me.

· That there is no benefit to me from even a small amount of alcohol. That there is no benefit which outweighs the many negatives—and you know what those negatives are.

· That I would no more consider buying alcohol than I would consider buying cigarettes or heroin.



Commitment means alcohol just doesn’t pass your lips. It’s not a daily negotiation, or something that applies on weekdays but not on weekends. You may have difficulty explaining the commitment to others (so don’t bother!). You just DON’T DO IT.

It’s a lot of things you don’t do.
You don’t buy it.
You don’t go places where drinking is the primary pastime (bars).
You don’t accept it if offered.

You do plan for how you’ll do social events without drinking. You do avoid situations or places where you are likely to give yourself permission to drink, and you take away the means of drinking at home.

When my son had behavior problems at school, we worked with his counselors to establish a system he would use when he realized he had failed to control an undesirable impulse.He was to go to a designated, trusted person and say, “I have made a mistake.”

We all do. Don’t beat yourself up. Get your system in place, and review it daily.

It’s just behavior, and behavior CAN be changed.

http://cbtrecovery.org/relapseconversation.htm

[Leesa]

KT,

I don't think self-loathing is helpful. Isn't that what brought some to addiction and kept them in it? It's another thing to loath your addiction for what it did to you.
Imo, self-liking yourself enough to forgive yourself for the past and give yourself the chance for a better future, is a better way to go.

[Peggy Power]

There's a lot of wisdom here, KT -- and a lot of love and support! I hope you can find a way to forgive yourself and move forward. YOU are not your behavior!

[indigo]

How are things with you today (((KT)))? don't forget how worth it you are!!!!

[Muse]

The obstacle standing between moving forward from what I know and the past, finding resolve and a solution, is myself. Move forward and don't stay stuck in what we know doesn't work. We have proven it doesn't work over and over again. Stop the insanity and work toward finding a way out by making changes. We do that by action and exploring new options. It may take us out of our comfort zone, but for myself, that is what I needed the most. Once I stepped out of my comfort zone and started moving forward, I then found comfort in my new behaviors and thinking.

[laurie6781]

KT I have been waiting to reply to your thread. I did want to see a little bit more of where you are at, at the moment and I am just coming off of a very very BAD MIGRAINE.

Now I have read the whole thread up to now. I can only share what I know from my own experiences of my own recovery and of working with others in recovery.

First, the old saying of:

" There are 3 UP's for an alcoholic:

LOCKED UP, I have been there

COVERED UP, came pretty damn close on this one

or

SOBERED UP.

So there are your choices.

Second, you haven't had to go as far as I did, so here's a bit of my story:

I was raised in the Midwest in an upper middle class family (that many years later I was to realize was extremely dysfunctional). Had what I thought was an average childhood (more was revealed the further I got into recovery.)

In 1957 when I was 12 I was physically maturing rather quickly. My mother in her infinite wisdom didn’t want some fellow to be able to take me out and get me drunk and do what he wanted, so she decided that I could learn how to “control and enjoy” my drinking at home. Now I have to tell you that I did learn how to control OR enjoy but NEVER at the same time.

I know today that by the time I was 16 I was already an alcoholic, but was a functioning one back then. I kept alcohol in my car, in my locker at school, in my locker at work, and in my bedroom. Finally realized in recovery that the only one I was hiding it from was myself.

In 1966 I gave up a little bab y girl for adoption, yes I did drink through most of the pregnancy, but did ‘control’ to a certain extent. 34 years later when I found her, it was with great relief to find out that she did not have Fetal Alcohol Syndrome and in fact was a healthy, successful, adult woman.

In ’67 I married a fellow who was career Air Force and who had been married before (an alcoholic by the way.) He was 10 years older than me and had 4 children from his first marriage. His first wife was in the last stages of Alcoholism. We went to court and I adopted his 4 children, ranging in age from 6 to 13. The fun was just beginning.

When he would be home on leave we had the usual alcoholic fights and they slowly got worse. Ironically, after we divorced, we became friends. My alcoholism progressed.

For many years I remained a ‘functioning alcoholic’ holding down a high paying job with lots of responsibility. Looking back now, I can see that the company I worked for had MORE than it’s fair share of alcoholics right up to the President and owner of the company.

When I finally lost that job, it became harder to get and hold a job. I used up my severance pay and then all of my unemployment benefits and still was only working ‘temporary assignments’ when I could get my act together.

In January of ’79 (when I was 33 ½ years old) my family told me NO MORE. They would no longer help me in any way. If I called they would hang up, if I came to the door it would be closed in my face and if I tried to steal from them they would call the police. It was MY PROBLEM and I had to deal with it, they could not.

Later after being in recovery for several years, my mother finally shared with me that had they not shut the door on me, they felt they were all going to end up, locked up in a padded cell in an institution.

Well with that pronouncement, my attitude was F you. I did a geographic and moved back to California. It took me another 2 and ½ years to find recovery and the last year and a half I lived on the streets of Hollyweird.

I can tell you today that the BEST THING MY FAMILY ever did for me was to SHUT THE DOOR ON ME as they did.

I had an old ’63 beat up ford, typical ‘alkie car’ with all four corners banged in and a coat hanger for an antenna. I mostly kept it parked at the back of the HollywoodBowlPark parking lot, under trees. Slept in it the nights I made it back to the car.

On Sunday June 7, 1981, at approximately 4:30pm (I know it was afternoon, I had a cheap $2 digital plastic watch, it said 4:30 and it was light out so knew it was afternoon) as I would take a swig in (oh btw I was a Jack Daniels and/or Wild Turkey drinker for most of my life and was on Thunderbird Wine by this time) it felt like it was coming out of every pore of my body as fast as I put it in. It was then I had no doubts left …………………….. I was dying. I was going to die soon if I kept drinking and I was going to die soon if I tried to stop, but somehow I wanted to die sober.

I put the cap back on the bottle, threw it in the back seat with the rest of the empties and started to cry. I was sitting on the concrete bumper and I did scream out

PLEASE HELP ME

Not my typical alkie prayer of “God get me out of this one and I’ll never do it again” just PLEASE HELP ME.

I can tell you it was a pretty rough night. The next morning I knew something was terribly wrong. I knew there was a hospital called Olive View in Van Nuys, had heard about it from my Wino buddies, but had no idea where it was. I started the car, intent on finding OliveViewHospital. Yes, I found the hospital, there had to be someone guiding that automobile because I had no idea where I was going.

I found out later, by reading my medical chart and by talking to the gal that was at the admissions desk that day, that I walked up to the desk, told the gal I was an alcoholic, said I hadn’t had a drink since the day before and something was drastically wrong. She told me I was green, she was hitting the emergency button under her desk, while she directed me to a chair right across from her desk, maybe a distance of 4 feet. I never made it. I went into seizures on the floor in front of her desk.

Later in reading the medical chart from that day, I found out that when I went into seizures my BAC was .38 and my body was CRAVING MORE. My heart stopped from the seizures. They would get me started again, and after a little while I would start to seizure again. This went on all day. The last time my heart stopped, I was down for 28 minutes and the ER Dr gave up. He called it and was writing the TOD on my chart (24 hours after I stopped drinking) and my heart started on it’s own. I was given a SECOND CHANCE.

After several days in the hospital, I came to that evening with 4 IV’s in me, with the help of the AA community I found a sober living house. Women’s Odyssey House in CanogaPark. Being in the house, I had no choice, I had to get a sponsor, I had to attend a minimum of 6 outside meetings a week, plus the 3 that were held at the house (unless I was scheduled to work at the time of one of those meetings). I had to get a job and pay room and board.

Back then AA was really the only game in town and I was immersed in going to meetings. Those meetings saved my butt. It was there I felt SAFE. It was there I found HOPE. It was there I got to know folks that had been where I was and who were actually LIVING SOBER and seemed to have ‘sparkle’ about them. When they smiled the smile went all the way to their eyes, and when they laughed or cried it came all the way from the depths of their being.

I was very foggy for several months, so even though I had found a WONDERFUL sponsor and her husband, I didn’t start ‘working the program’ until I was almost 6 months without a drink.
Possible.

I believe to this day that HP put Bev and Hugh in my life. They were great sponsors. Overtime, as our relationship grew and changed, they were like my parents, my siblings, my bestest friends, and they played “Devel’s Advocate” with me a lot. Not only ‘guiding me through the steps but SHOWING me by their daily living and their actions how the program worked.

I will be forever grateful to the people of the AA Community in the San FernandoValley of Los AngelesCalifornia. They put me on the right track for this alcoholic.

That was a long time ago now. I continue to this day to use the TOOLS I was taught to LIVE SOBER. I have had and continue to have a life I never dreamed was possible!

I will tell all that have just arrived, to please hang on to your butt, because you are in for One H*ll Of A Ride.

There were so many things I had to learn or relearn. The emotions I had buried for so long had to be dealt with in a ‘new’ way. Slowly I learned and continue to learn to this day.

It has been well worth it for me, and if HP is willing, and I am still here, on June 7, 2009 I will celebrate 28 years.

You too can achieve whatever you want. It is hard work. It is exhausting work, but the benefits are just unimaginable.

You know all my life before recovery I had been a great “Starter” but a real lousy “Finisher” of any project I took on. Well………………………… this time ……………I’m still “Finishing”, lol

Recovery has been the hardest thing I have ever attempted and it has also been the most rewarding. Even with my health issues (many of which are a direct result of all the years I drank) I LOVE life today.

I hope anyone that reads this can find what I have found. Believe me you won’t regret it!

Now you DO NOT have to take it that far.

However, I will guarantee that if you continue to sit there, feeling sorry, feeling "the shame" (which by the way will be taken care of if you WORK HARD in your recovery) giving yourself more excuses to drink, YOU WILL!

KT it can all end right here, right now, whatever road of recovery you chose, each and every one can help you get past this. There is one teensy little problem though you won't get it by OSMOSIS. No matter which one you try you will have to give it YOUR ALL and I will not deny it is one h*ll of a lot of VERY HARD WORK.

You can do this KT.

Oh and as far as the inertia and depression, you really should check in weth your doctor to see what (s)he can do for you to get you motivated.

I know you can do this!!!!!!

Please keep letting us know how you are doing, as we do care very much!

Love and hugs,

[cody]

(((KT))), you just got one big dose of tough love, and I know it was meant from the heart, and intended to help you get your a$$ in gear. Laurie said it sooo much better than I ever could have....thank you laurie

So KT, what are you going to do?

[KilgoreTrout]

Wow Laurie, I had no idea of all you went through. Thank you for telling me your story. I do not want it to get that far with me. I always think 'well, the worst is behind me', and it's probably true. I too used to drink a fifth (at least) of Jack a day, that was when I was a teenager. Believe it or not I was once much worse off than I am today. In those days I could not go a day without a drink. Now, somehow I've transformed into a binge drinker, and I convince myself that is better, but, I know it whittles me down every time I binge, and someday I could 'give up' again and go back to those horrible days.

I'm finding strength through you guys, I'm just not sure which direction to step in. Should I keep having faith in myself and move on with all I've learned? I certainly know a lot, and have improved a lot, but it's not enough, I know deep down I need outside help. Maybe not now or a month from now but eventually, in order to care enough to stay sober for the long run, I NEED outside help. I know a lot of you guys are AAers, I feel like I need to try that avenue, but I'm just so weary of a lot about it. I've inquired of some people and it seems that to get a sponser and all that they make you like call your family and crap like that. I don't want to do that. I don't want any part of my past to come back in any way. They wouldn't understand or be a support and it would only worry them and make me feel horrible. Besides, they're no where near me and they don't know me at all. As for any friends, well, I don't have any. I've abandoned my drinking friends long ago and alienated any good friends I may have had before that by my drinking, in one way or the other. I don't make new ones cause I don't know how to sober and I'm too afraid I'll allow myself to go out for a beer and make a fool of myself. So that leaves me with the option of continued self isolation which feeds my depression or AA, I think. I don't see any other way. There's something about doing that though that feels like the final nail in the coffin of the fantasy of just having this all pass on its own accord without having to make the long term committment of being a lifetime recovering alcoholic. I HATE that I have to be that. I'm sorry but I do. I just want to get better and move on with my life.

Anyway, I'm going to force myself to a meeting. Maybe tomorrow. Crap crap crap crap CRAP. Thank you for all your support guys. If you want to know how I feel I feel horrible everytime I think about my last slip. I have to go to Chicago this weekend with my father and my brother and during my last slip I had a very long conversation with my brother in which I think I told him about depression, and suicidal tendencies, and my alcoholism but I'm not sure, I might have dreamed that part? I just DON'T remember. So, it's obviously a source of anxiety for me. I wrote an account of my slip so I could look at it. Maybe I'll post it later on for you guys... I don't know what else to say.

[laurie6781]

I've inquired of some people and it seems that to get a sponser and all that they make you like call your family and crap like that.

BULL

Here's the Big Book on line, maybe try reading it, from the FRONT page through page 164:

http://www.aa.org/bigbookonline/

You get a sponsor when you are ready to get a sponsor. You get a sponsor by going to different meetings, sitting and listening and getting to know some folks. Then when you think you have found somehow who you can relate to, who has worked and is living the steps and is walking the way they are talking you ask that sponsor for help in 'guiding you through the steps.'

You contact your family IF and WHEN you are ready if ever. H*ll I didn't get with mine for 5 years, wasn't ready until then.

You have some 'misconceptions' about AA my friend.

I'll tell you what I found those first months. I had so fried my brain that I was really unable to read and start to comprehend the BB of AA until I was almost 6 months sober. However, I LIVED in AA meetings when I was not at work and here is why:

I felt SAFE in AA meetings. I found HOPE in AA meetings. I watched the people and I saw them smile and the smiles went all the way up to and included their eyes. I heard them laugh and yes cry and it came from the very soul of their being.

Here were people who had been where I was or were at where I was and they could actually smile and laugh and cry. WOW

So please do not think there is any 'urgency' to get a sponsor. I know, some folks come in and work their steps and seem to be on the road right away. The truth is a lot more folks take a lot longer.

Just go check out ALL the meetings in your area (except the Women only meetings, rofl) and listen. Look for the similarities not the differences. See which meetings you like and return to those. I think you will be pleasantly surprised.

If you did have that conversation with your brother, and that is a big IF, and if he brings it up, you only have to say 'I am working on these problems very hard' and change the subject.

J M H O

I know you can do this, but is will be the HARDEST THING YOU HAVE EVER ATTEMPTED IN YOUR LIFE!! But oh so well worth it!!!!!!!

Love and hugs,

[Don S]

Originally Posted by KilgoreTrout

I'm finding strength through you guys, I'm just not sure which direction to step in. Should I keep having faith in myself and move on with all I've learned? I certainly know a lot, and have improved a lot, but it's not enough, I know deep down I need outside help.

http://www.behaviortherapy.com/whatworks.htm

Maybe you could find a CBT counselor and discuss motivational enhancement. Perhaps some medication such as acamprosate would help as well.
It probably wouldn't hurt to read Jack Trimpey's Mini Crash Course on AVRT again, too.
http://rational.org/index.php?id=35

[indigo]

I think that's a great idea Don, I hope you do this KT.