Michael Jackson RIP

[afrita]

I don't think MJ was perfect, but Muse, that is a trashy documentary. I was living in the UK when it was filmed for and shown on ITV, and it was roundly condemned for poor journalism. I remember being REALLY surprised that 20/20 would hire someone as poor as Martin Bashir. Do you remember his comments about "Asian babes" and how he was glad the podium he was speaking at covered his lower half?

[Muse]

I'm aware of the controversy of Bashir. Whether or not it was a trashy documentary, I'm commenting on Michael's behavior. Take the cloth off the poor babies face while you are feeding it. If you want to conceal his identity, don't put him on camera. The point was to make Michael look like a good father, to me, it looked like he was jonesing. Hey, it was Michael choice of whether or not he wanted that filmed or not. I found it very disturbing to watch. My concern is for the kids now. I hope they can lead happy lives. It is so sad that every where they turn is a reminder of the death of their father and the controversy. To them, he was simply, Dad.

[Giyana]

I guess I would add an "aside" here: my ex (20+ years sober then) cheated on me, got money from countless "friends" he cultivated within AA, and so on.

Sum total: If everyone he helped and everyone he screwed were together at his funeral, I think the "helped" people would be far in the majority. With MJ, how much pleasure versus pain did he bring to this world?

Sorry, can't help thinking about the balance scale,

Gi

[afrita]

How can you possibly assume to know, Giana?

[Giyana]

I can't know Afrita, any more than I know why we live at all on this ball floating around in infinity. Just a thought. I guess I really believe we are here to fight our demons. Somehow.

No offense meant,
Gi

[Giyana]

I guess a PS is also due here: I think we are MEANT to fight our demons and connect with others. I suppose that is why I so connect with this site, Chy, and all of you, some of us going back to 2002 and beyond.

Gi

[Autumn]

Originally Posted by Giyana

Sum total: If everyone he helped and everyone he screwed were together at his funeral, I think the "helped" people would be far in the majority. With MJ, how much pleasure versus pain did he bring to this world?

Sorry, can't help thinking about the balance scale,

Gi

The more I think about it, he brought millions of people a lot of joy with his talent (including myself -- I adore his Off the Wall album), and if he was a pedophile, I think he brought more joy to many, many other children who will have lifelong memories of his kindnesses, than children he may have hurt.

There will always be that "Still, but...." factor though in many people's minds, but ultimately it really isn't up to us to calculate his karmic balance (myself included).

Whaddaya do.

[afrita]

Jackson rabbi-friend: Singer was 'a tortured, tortured soul' - CNN.com

[Autumn]

He was a tortured soul.

I remember thinking some time ago that I didn't think Michael would live a very long life. I thought it would be suicide.

He was a complex individual, and very enigmatic. For all the allegations against him, there was an undeniable sweetness, gentleness, and palpable vulnerability about him. He would light up a room with his smile.

If the allegations against him were true, they had to have been born of mental illness, and not of malice. I have to believe that, because there's a part of my heart and soul that aches so much for him, and needs to properly mourn his loss.

The whole situation is a tragedy beyond words.

[Autumn]

Thought some of you might enjoy this MJ tribute station:

http://livestream2.bigrradio.com/MJT

I found it quite by accident, and it's great. I was up listening to it half the night while surfing.

There's a song titled "Have You Seen My Childhood" that I never heard, and it was sooooo sad.

"Ben" is on right now....




.

[Muse]

All the Michael hoopla still on the TV. I'm drawn to him. His talent, his ability to entertain, dance, sing, I'm enthralled. Then he speaks. There is such a child like demeanor that does not fit or suit an adult. It is so odd. He must have suffered dearly. I'm still so saddened to see him deny and attempt to escape into his fantasy world that he created, then he sings and dances...and again, I find him astounding. I find the entire situation heart breaking for him, his family and his kids. A lot of accusations seem to point at the Dad. Would they possibly let the children live with him? If there is an ounce of truth to the accusation, they must break the cycle.

[Velvet]

I have always liked Michael Jackson, his music, his missions. I don't believe the accusations. And now it all comes out that he misused drugs. Does this really surprise anyone? We are quick to gossip and examine him under a microscope now....and where are we all at....what site is this....??

[Chy]

Addiction: Cunning, baffling, powerful, patient, takes no prisoners.. lots of folks out there that need our help celeb to the homeless it's everywhere and we keep doing our very best to extend that hand folks.... it's all we can do.

[laurie6781]

Muse, I agree that is why I said his demons are gone now.

I did read today though, and I say good for his lawyers, that his will has his whole estate being set up as a Family Trust. He gives 'guardianship' to his MOTHER. No mention of his father, and if she becomes incapacitated etc, 'guardianship' transfers to Diana Ross. So he had some good advice there that he did follow. No way for "Papa Joe" to get his hands on ANY of the money.

I also suspect, that over the years his mother has gotten a lot stronger and doesn't take any 'chit' from him any more.

I will continue to pray that she too will keep him (Joe) away from those children and keep the children out of the lime light. Maybe get them some therapy.

RIP Michael, hopefully you are now at peace.

Love and hugs,

[Autumn]

Originally Posted by Muse

Then he speaks. There is such a child like demeanor that does not fit or suit an adult. It is so odd.

During the first molestation investigation, he was interviewed by a psychologist who found him to have regressed to the mental age of that of a 10 year old, and that he did not fit the profile of a pedophile.

[Muse]

That would make sense, his mental age. That is probably when things really started happening for the Jackson Five and the pressure started to hit.

As far as his drug use, that comes as no surprise to me. It would explain a lot of his behavior and the talk has been floating around for sometime now. Michael has always been subject of great topic, good or bad. It is a shame that he suffered so. When it comes to Hollywood stars and entertainers, there always seems to be doctors or others willing to enable and contribute to the problem. It appears Michael has been in big trouble for a long time. Did anyone step in and try to help? How can we know, we weren't there. So many factors and the end result is a tragedy. Addiction knows no prejudice.

[Autumn]

Originally Posted by Muse

That would make sense, his mental age. That is probably when things really started happening for the Jackson Five and the pressure started to hit.

My mistake. I should have said "emotional age" rather than "mental age". But yes, it's too obvious to not believe. I have been doing a lot of reading to sort of reconcile the conflicted feelings I have about the whole sordid mess. Wikipedia has a very good article if you're interested.

As far as his drug use, that comes as no surprise to me. It would explain a lot of his behavior and the talk has been floating around for sometime now. Michael has always been subject of great topic, good or bad. It is a shame that he suffered so. When it comes to Hollywood stars and entertainers, there always seems to be doctors or others willing to enable and contribute to the problem. It appears Michael has been in big trouble for a long time. Did anyone step in and try to help? How can we know, we weren't there. So many factors and the end result is a tragedy. Addiction knows no prejudice.

I read somewhere that he did a stint in rehab after his trial. I remember when he showed up late to court one day in his pajamas, claiming that he had a spider bite on his ankle, when in fact he had been injecting himself. I think his beliefs about substance abuse were somewhat paradoxical. On the one hand, he didn't believe in recreational drug abuse, and on the other, didn't believe his use of prescription medications may have indicated ab-use, simply because they were pharmaceuticals.

Pain, whether it's emotional or physical, knows no boundaries. We who have been in similar situations understand the draw all too well.